So, last night I got a message on one of my websites from a guy named Pat. Well, Pat claimed to love Jesus and said he goes to a christian college. He said something I didn't think was very Christ-like so I called him out on it. Which started a debate. I'm going to put our conversation here. And YOU should let me know who was right. Or your own opinions.(:
Pat says: "ha ha if ur being serious bout the bad as* thing then ur crazy ... a real christian is juss a stereotype being a christian is believing in jesus christ and having a personal relationship with him u dun have to a perfect person to be a christian u r accepted for who u r whther u cuss drink smoke have sex whatever thats not what portrays u as a christian its all in the heart whats inside not out"
I say: "I wasn't serious about there being "real christians" but yet, some people claim to have the faith but know not a thing about it.
And, no. "Faith without works is dead." God gave us rules to live by. We can't claim to believe in Him and think only that will get us into heaven. No, we don't have to be perfect because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory, but yet we should try our best to follow His commandments. If there isn't a change in someone when they have found Christ, then there's a problem.
It says not to be a drunkard, not to have sex outside of marriage, and not to use foolish language. Sure, people make mistakes. But doing them just to do them is wrong.
1 John 2:3-4 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
Pat says: "yes yes i know this and in reality a true christian doesnt judge another we have all sinned but if u keep sinning gods not gonna be like u cant come into heaven ... yes it says follow these rules and commandments but he will forgive if ur heart is right and juss cuz i said bad as* dun mean im not gonna go to heaven ur not any more perfect than me every single christian out there has a issue that isnt right through gods eyes but he still loves em does he not ? yes he wont deny them either cuz their heart is right ... your willinness to follow him and believe him and where your heart is means everything where you stand means more than what any persons words can mean ... im not sayin dun try not to sin but in reality is almost physically impossible not to sin everybody and anybody sins the only remotely perfect person to walk this earth was jesus christ himself and noone will amount to him so therefor you cant make urself out to be somethin that u kno for sure is impossible and thats perfect and thats what most christians try to do they try to be perfect and its absurd just cuz ur a christian dont mean you have to have your sh*t together and yes i said sh*t you will never fully quit sinning or fully have your life together till the day you die and go to heaven"
I say: "Hebrews 10: 26-27
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
So, keeping on sinning and having sex.. even if you claim to believe in God
and even if you go to church, if you're not living for Him you're not gonna make it into heaven. Of course there's if you made a mistake, and you're genuinely sorry and repent. But repent means to turn away from the sin and not do it again.. but if you say "oh God I'm sorry forgive me" and go doing it again, it's not going to be forgiven.
It's not about being perfect. But to be a christian means to be "Christ-like".
So we should be trying to be an example of Him. Not out sinning with the rest of the world. Yes God loves us all the same, but obviously a heart isn't right if a person is still living like the world and not trying to please God. It should only be about pleasing God, not people.
1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever."
Pat says: "no no no uve got it all wrong ... no matter what it dun matter if you go to christ and ask for forgiveness you will get it there is nowhere anywhere in the entire bible that says if you ask for forgiveness you wont get it ... it doesnt matter how many times you have done that sin already it will be forgiven if your serious about it and all your sayin is true but your using it all in the wrong context ... cuz in reality u dun even gotta go to church to be a christian or anythin your saying yaa if u sin willfully its different but u can still forgiveness and ull get if ur serious bout it"
I say: "If you sin after getting repentance. And church is needed. You have to have church to grow. Surely they teach you this at your "christian college". Yes, you will get forgiveness but if you keep on sinning and keep asking for forgiveness but sin again, you aren't going to make it into heaven. You can't ride the fence.
You can't love Christ and the world. You can't serve two masters. The bible has rules, God has rules.
Revelation 3:16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
Leviticus 26: 23 If, in spite of all this, you refuse my correction and still go against me; then I too will go against you; and I, yes I, will strike you seven times over for your sins."
Pat says: "yaa church is needed but its juss to help u grow i know plenty of well based christian people who dun go to church and have a great relationship with god and ur crazy for thinking u wont get into heaven if you sin again ... thats like saying if you break a bone more than once its just never gonna heal again and its gonna be broken for good no thats not the case you always have that chace of redemption no matter when or where or how mant times uve sinned u can keep sinning and it dun mean anythin more than it does the first time u sinned people struggleand thats all sin is its a struggle and every living person sins are you saying that every living person is gonna go to hell cuz they sinned more than once in their life ? come on be logical your using all these bible verses in the wrong context u got the right idea but wrong usage you cant say because ive sinned more than once im gonna go to hell its not the case your always given redemption god isnt angry he is understanable and will understand if u struggle and if your trying"
I say: "I'm not saying because you've sinned more than once. I'm saying, if you're in the heat of temptation and know what's right, and obviously if you know God and love Him you know what's right... and you give into the temptation and afterwords say "Ohhhh God I'm sorry please forgive me and stuff" and then go right back and it happens again.. You definitely don't get what I'm saying. The bible verse means what it says. If you give into sin when you know God's word and what is says, yeah you'll get forgiveness if you ask. But if you live a life full of cussing, sex before marriage, and all that stuff, no, you're not gonna get into heaven."
Pat says: "no not thats not true whats so ever ... do you think every christian has lived a perfect life ? hell no !!! youve been sheltered or somethin cuz ur not in this world cuz every christian has a story bout their life before becoming a christian does that mean their gonna go to hell cuz they had sex before marriage cussed then and did drugs then absoloutely not !!! its the same concept yes we know better but we will never get denied your focusing on perfection which there is none of in this world and god knows that he knows people will turn around and do what they juss asked to be forgiven for cuz its called a struggle and every person has em and even you right now has a personal issue that is a sin and dun lie and say u dun because everybody is dealing with sin constantly so your contradicting yourself how your saying thatll juss mean your gonna go to hell to if there was no redemption we would all be screwed cuz we all sin constantly and it couldnt work out we alll are sinning and we cant not sin we can try all our life not to but cuz we do sin or deal with the same sin alot whether its on purpose or not god will forgive cuz he knows the heart ... im sorry youve got it all wrong it doesnt matter what you know juss cuz someone sins doesnt mean they cant help it ever though of it like that ? they are struggling and keep going back to that same thing ... you have to conquer one thing to move onto another you have to overcome but when u overcome does another sin come around ? sure it does sin is always around and we r all sinning 24/7 some worse than others we all have our issues but that doesnt mean we r gonna go to hell im sorry to say but youve got it wrong sweetie im not doubting what u say but what u say is unreal if what u say is true everybody on this god given earth is going to hell including me and u"
I say: "You definitely aren't at my kinda church. And I'm meaning AFTER you've found Christ. Not before. Then you were in the world. I don't cuss. So it's possible for other people not to do it. And no, people are not sinning 24/7. I am not sinning right this second. Sure, I'm up a little late, but that's not a sin. You definitely don't understand what I'm trying to say. You seem just like every other person to me. Why? Because you act just like them. "Oh sex before marriage and cussing and drinking is okay but I believe in God." I've never drank, never had sex, and I don't cuss. That is why people think I'm different, I follow HIS commandments. He will always forgive, yes. But there comes a point where if you think you're okay and you're "on the fence" like I said, living for the world and claiming to love God. You cannot love God and the world. He said to drop the world, pick up your cross and follow Him. Get into the word.
Jesus didn't die for us so we could keep living a sinful worldly life after we found Him. He died so we could live a righteous life, following after Him, and working on being Christ-like. Sure, people will slip up and sin but if they are genuinely sorry, and don't do it again then He is just and righteous to forgive them they're sin. But if it's a constant thing.. Like I've tried to explain.. cussing... drinking.. partying... He said to go preach the gospel. Not claim to believe in him, and cuss and such.
Sin doesn't constantly come around. I think you're meaning as in, like when you're carrying a lot of stuff.. and drop something.. then pick it up and drop something else... no, it's not like that. You place your burdens in HIS hands and work to get rid of addictions and sin, and soon you'll have less on your plate. Sure, every now and then there will be slip ups, no one is perfect but Him. But yet, if someone is living like you're saying, a new sin popping up for everyone they get rid of.. then, there's a problem and they aren't truly seeking Him. I can go all night with the point I'm trying to make if you wish.
Like so, say.. Saturday night you're at a bar drinking and partying and dancing and all that jazz.. then Sunday you go into church praising God and the pastor is starting his little communion speech.. and says "it doesn't matter what you were doing yesterday, take this cup and God will forgive you" yadda yadda.. and you do... but then next Saturday you're in that same bar.. and then it all repeats itself. Then, you will not make it into the kingdom because you are not living for God, you are a hypocrite."
Pat says: "im done talking to you ... your redundant and i didnt even read the message u juss sent and yes every person has an issue on their heart all the time and the world is a sinning world juss looking at someone the wrong way is sinning we sin everyday and i know neither u nor ask forgiveness for all our sins cuz there are sins we commit that we dun even notice ... its absurd talkin 2 u .. cuz u dun understand perfection is not what he asks for and thats what ur sayin .. he asks for ur heart ur all to come to him as u r and juss cuz u sin over and over again dun mean he wont work on u ... he wont give up it takes time so therefor u can sin again and again and still get into heaven cuz god works with each person and guides them all the way if you sin its to teach you somethin .. everythin happens for a reason so ur saying god juss gives up when u sin again and again no the god i know doesnt give up on anyone he follows through what kinda god would he be if someone juss kept sinning and he said well im done with u .. ur worthless no he stays true thats what ur sayin basically .. ill believe what i believe and u do what u do but no offense people like u r the reason why people dun believe in god and hate christians cuz u think we gotta be perfect to be a christian ur not perfect juss as much as im not people like u make me furious cuz u can quote bible verses left and right but does it actually mean somethin when ur talkin 2 someone can u save them with the words u have ? will they want to relate to u or hear what u have to say when all u tell them is how they have to be perfect and get their life together right away or god wont accept ur approaching this all the wrong way"
I say: "You don't get it.
I'm not saying be perfect.
Oh my gosh. I can't even
explain this to you.
You'll understand someday.
And no, I'm not the reason people hate christians.
Certain people see so called "christians"
out in the bars and say "well, they're a christian
and just like everyone else, so why would I want that?"
So, yeah.
But that's okay.
I'm willing to try to explain.
But, it doesn't seem like you understand what I'm trying to say."
Pat says: "ha ha xD ... no ur juss oblivious u got to say what u want but dun listen to what i have to say and ok whats wrong with drinkin ... there is not one thing in the bible that says anythin about drinkin it says bout gettin drunk but nothin wrong bout drinkin and people dun want someone who thinks they r better than them they want someone they can relate to and is on their level they dun want someone to judge them they want someone to accept them and i accept all people who even hate god im friends with can u say the same thing ? and yaa thats what ur sayin in order to go to heaven u have to be perfect ... trust me ive been through it all i go to school at the number one christian school in america and the teachers there are the smartest christian teachers in the nation i know more than u think i do the bible is another textbook to me i have to study it constantly sooo u think to urself if god is the person we say he is and he can forgive then if someone struggling and keeps on sinning with sex but asking for forgiveness everytime ur tellin me they r gonna go to hell that god will juss push them away even tho its an addiction they work on breakin ... no ! he will always be there and always willing to forgive think deep when you think bout sin and forgiveness look very deep and think bout it it doesnt matter if ur one with him or not it says he will not leave u nor forsake u and if u sin and keep going back to that sin then he shouldnt leave then either what kinda god would he be if he juss gave up even if u willingly knew what u were doing was bad he will always be there and ready to forgive he wont deny u and say well u knew so now ur going to hell thats not how it works forgiveness is always there its juss whether or not ur serious bout it and willing to take i t"
I say: "You. still. don't. get. it.
I'm not saying I'm better than anyone.
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory.
If you're in the number one christian college
and cussing, then yes.. I think there's a problem there.
Sure, a word every now and then on accident is understandable...
But what I'm saying is, if you know God says
cussing is wrong and do it regardless
then you're in the wrong, big time.
And same with other things. Acting like
you're sorry for something and doing it
over and over again... oh my gosh.
nevermind.
I'm no better than the next person,
but I know what is true and what is not.
If you live a life of sin you're not following His commandments.
Like He said, those who love him will keep his commandments.
and he who says he loves God but does not keep his commandments
is a liar. "
Pat says: yaaa but ur using this all in the wrong context and wow !!!! u must be very sheltered cuz i know christians that cuss drink smoke have sex and go to my school nobody cares fa real juss cuz i go there and i cuss and smoke and drink makes me a bad person cuz ya there is somethin wrong there go ahead judge me cuz im tired of judging myself .. ur being a hypocrite right there u say u cuss to but yet ur sayin somethin is wrong with me juss cuz i cuss and go to a christian college ur going against everythin u have said with juss those words ... so re think urself and what u said and get back to me cuz u cant help someone when there is already somethin wrong with u .... dun preach to me when ur the one who needs to look at themselves first thank u and goodbye"
I say: "I didn't say I cussed, so read the message before you say I'm being a hypocrite. Do not tell me there is something wrong with me. I just think you're reading a different bible than I am. You are entitled to your own beliefs. And no, I am not sheltered. I follow God's word. I am IN the world, But not OF it.
That's the way a relationship with God is meant to be. Must just have christian teachers, cause I sure hope people aren't going to this college to be pastors if they're doing that stuff. I have not cussed. I see no use in it. I see no use in doing things that are wrong, because it never got anyone anywhere.
But thank you for the debate, and giving me some practice. Goodnight."
Pat- doesn't reply.
What do you think?
Who was right? Who was wrong?
Were both of us wrong?
Thank you to Jacob McGaha for help with some of the bible verses (:
-Christina
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